MJ is 50, and the greatest of all time

ESPN has been all over Michael Jordan's 50th birthday this week. Lots of commentary about his legendary play, inevitable comparisons to current day stars like LeBron and Kobe. OTL has a great article about his legacy and current life you can read HERE.

For my money, I think MJ was the greatest of all time. His natural talents were obviously top flight, but the commitment (or was it obsession?), work ethic, competitiveness were what made him the best. The OTL article outlines that today at 50 years old, he wants to win and still thinks he could be competitive.

But the OTL article also outlines what I believe is a common side-effect of this level of achievement: isolation. You see, nobody can relate to him. Nobody can walk a mile in his Air Jordans. Nobody knows the pressures that come with the title of "the greatest". Now don't mistake my comments for pity, Jordan's life ain't too shabby. But I think most people see the fame and money and don't realize there are also negative consequences.

People naturally want to compare MJ to LeBron because of LeBron's gaudy stats, especially this year. But if you want the current day comparison, don't look at LeBron, look at the Lakers KOBE BRYANT. You see, LeBron's as interested if not more interested in being a brand, something that Michael created. He wants to be liked, want's to be told he's King James like Dwight Howard's insecurity. Have a 60 minute TV special to announce you are "taking your talents to South Beach". Sure he wants to win, but he's already shrunk into the corner in more big NBA moments than MJ, Kobe, Magic, and Bird combined! Kobe, straight up assassin. He'd knock down your Mama if she was between him and a ring. And that's what made MJ the greatest.

Oh, and before you start typing, don't mistake my commentary about Kobe and MJ as admiration. If I would have received the God-given gifts that any of these guys had, I'd probably fall more into the "Like Me" camp than the "Assassin" camp. But the reality is, if you want to be the best, you've got to be willing to trample a few less-worthy that stand in your way.

Brad on extremism, another angle

I'm reading a book called The Will To Climb by Ed Viesturs. As you may know, he is the most successful American mountaineer in modern history, being among other things the first American and one of the few in the world to summit all 14 8,000 meter peaks without the use of supplemental oxygen.

His books are very thoughtful and pragmatic on the topic of climbing. The quote below is quite relevant to our extremism conversation:

"I'm a firm believer in the value of commitment...but I'm leery of commitment's close cousin, obsession."

He goes on to discuss the potential of a dichotomy between commitment and obsession or whether commitment is good while obsession is bad. As he says "The whole business is more complex and subtler than that."

So am I committed or obsessed with my pursuits? Rather than discuss that, what about others? Is someone who works 12 hour days 6 days a week committed or obsessed? What about the "extreme" churchgoer, devouring services, small groups, and seminars? Doesn't the same spectrum exist in nearly every human pursuit?

And now we're full circle back to Marc's post on extremism...

Brad on extremists - where does it stop?

If you have that interest in pushing your limits, where does it stop?

That's a great question that creates waves in my family. Sheila knows I'm restless and is worried (rightfully so) at what's the next crazy idea I'm going to announce. She's seen this progression in me over the last decade and wonders how much time away from my family for training, traveling, et cetera will be enough. She reiterated when I returned from Kilimanjaro that "Everest is off the table". I whole-heartedly agree...for now.

Its a troubling question for me as well since I at times don't enjoy the restless and empty feeling that I need to pursue the next challenge. There is certainly a part of me that wants to be satisfied, not to want to train, suffer, research, and be away from my wife and girls for some largely selfish pursuit of a race or summit or faraway place. I think I'll know when it is time to say enough, if I ever get there. But as long as I have a supportive family, a flexible job with understanding leadership, and the financial means what can stand in my way?

Extremists?

Simmer down t-shirt boy.  You lumped yourself in that group, not me!

Brad, I can't say as I TOTALLY understand what you're saying, but I kinda get it.  But whatever strand of DNA that is, it's not in my blood.

I have to agree with Ed on a couple of points.  First, although there ARE people who want to "find the limit" of their physical and mental abilities, I guarantee that the "Tough Mudder" and "Spartan Race" crowd has very few of those people.  I would love to see a survey of Tough Mudder participants about the degree of their preparation for the race.  My guess is that the majority of the participants did little to no preparation at all.  Those people don't qualify under your description Brad.

If you read through my earlier post again, I referenced "extreme" athletes who push themselves to the limits for the purpose of competition, because that's what it takes to be at the "top of their game".  I get that.  I also understand people like you, Brad, who must actually train to accomplish the feats that you set out to do.  I'd venture a guess to say that there aren't a lot of people that hop on a plane willy nilly and fly to Africa to climb Kilimanjaro.  Nobody signs up for a marathon and shows up the day of the race with a new pair of shoes that they bought on the way from Denny's to the starting line.  I doubt that people decide to climb Everest and show up at the base of the mountain asking directions about the best way to the top.  There is a HUGE difference between people who seek to push their limits in a way that requires training and preparation to accomplish it, and people who show up to run a 5K that happens to have some hanging cattle prods and people shooting you with fire hoses.  That's the t-shirt crowd, and that's what I don't get.

Another point that Ed made that I tend to agree with was his question about where it stops.  I am curious about your feeling of emptiness on the mountain and your immediate swing to "what's next?"  What does it take to make a man say, "That's enough."  Is it physical exhaustion that requires a trip to the hospital?  Is it a near death experience?  Is it a mental breakdown that forces you to admit defeat?  I'm just curious how someone like you (not the t-shirt crowd) ever reaches that point where you aren't empty anymore.  Do you have any thoughts on that?

We probably won't ever come completely to terms on this, and I'm okay with that.  Admittedly, I'm a little fascinated by people who feel the need to test their limits, primarily because I've never been one who has felt that need.  I don't really think one way is right and the other is wrong.  It's just different.  Having just finished Pete Sampras' book, and Andre Agassi's book not long before that, there couldn't be more different people in the tennis world, and yet in the realm of professional tennis they both had absolutely amazing results.

Ultimately I guess it comes down to what makes you tick.  Do they sell "I climbed Kilimanjaro" t-shirts??

Brad on Out of Touch

Here's my knowledge base for current music:

The Black Keys YES, Dad saw a deal on 60 minutes about them and likes them. So how out of touch does that make YOU feel.
Fun YES, front man is from Iowa City
Gotye YES family favorite song
Kimbra YES
Frank Ocean
Taylor Swift YES
Mumford and Sons YES, a Sheila favorite
Jack White
Ed Sheeran
Miguel
Carly Rae Jepsen YES, who doesn't love them some Call Me Maybe
Kelly Clarkson YES
Florence and the Machine YES
Maroon 5 YES, Adam Levine of of the most talented in music right now
Pink YES

So that makes me 11 of 15. I listen to the radio quite a bit, usually in 5-7 minute increments during my commute. It gives me a decent feel for the 25 songs they play over and over.

So I win? What do I get for being THE MOST EXTREME CURRENT MUSIC EXPERT OF THE FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed on Out of Touch

Here's the list from Marc's post about being out of touch  And I wondered how many of these artists my kids would recognize and know versus me, as the way cool hipster Dad.  Haley is taking a nap and therefore not available for the tally, but here is the tally for Alex and Luke and me.

So, here's the tally ...

The Black Keys
Fun (Alex, Luke, Ed)
Gotye (Alex, Luke)
Kimbra (Alex)
Frank Ocean
Taylor Swift (Alex, Luke, Ed)
Mumford and Sons (Alex, Luke)
Jack White
Ed Sheeran
Miguel
Carly Rae Jepsen (Alex, Luke, Ed)
Kelly Clarkson (Alex, Luke, Ed)
Florence and the Machine (Alex, Luke)
Maroon 5 (Alex, Luke, Ed)
Pink (Alex, Luke, Ed)

So the final score was:  Alex (10/15), Luke (9/15), Ed (6/15).  I suspect Haley would know even more than Alex.

So yes, it does mean that we (and by we I mean the BTAW brothers) are getting old!  Brad, feel free to chime in and woo us with the depth and breadth of your current music scene awareness.

Ed on Extreme

I understand both Brad and Marc's position, and both posts are good ones.  

But my question for Brad is why?  Why push to your limits?  What is gained?  Sure, you learn how much your body can achieve but is that really why most people take to these extreme challenges?  As an official non-member of the extreme club I don't think so.  I would suggest most have something to prove to others, and that they aren't doing it just for themselves.  Money, fame, status or whatever, I'm calling out "most" extreme seekers and suggesting these are the real reasons for their pursuits.  Brad may have more noble reasons, but I don't think he's in the majority among his extreme seeking clubbers.

And for Marc I would suggest that stretch is always a good thing.  And yes, stretch is different than extreme.  But most regular Joe's don't realize there is as much elasticity in their capability as they actually have.  As people we getting better from adversity.  And while I don't like adversity any more than anyone else, we always seem to grow, develop and get better from facing it.  When it comes to my psyche content rests very close to complacent, and the line between the two is often blurry.  So I need the urging to continually improve and get better.  That's just me, again no presumption that you are the same.

So as with most things the value is in the middle.  Just like an Oreo.

When I spoke to Brad this weekend it was interesting to me that he was uncomfortable with the banner of "lunatic", but much more comfortable with "fringe lunatic".  Ah, he likes the inside edge of extreme.  And Marc, would you be comfortable with the outside edge of comfortable, which I might describe as stretch?  If so, then then you two are a lot closer than you think.

And this discovery would mean you both are both wrong ... and I'm RIGHT.  Now that's an extreme position that I'm very comfortable with!