To be honest, I haven't thought a whole lot about the Warriors beating the Bulls regular season wins record. I agree with you Brad, that things change. And yet everyone is still following the "chase to beat the record." Is it the same record if it's not the same basketball as it was when the Bulls were kings? Perhaps I am a curmudgeon, because I'm "old school" in the sense that I think records should be incidental to the game, not the goal or focus of the game. Just ask Gregg Popovich how he feels about records! That's why he rested his "big three" for a Friday night prime time match up with the defending champions Miami Heat back in the day (and then got fined for it). The Spurs were at the end of a long road stretch and didn't need the W - his starters needed rest. No Ed, it doesn't make for good TV, but in that case I think it did make for an NBA championship.
Don't get me wrong - I am as much about entertainment value as the next guy. One of the MYRIAD of things that irritate this curmudgeon is the I-like-NCAA-basketball-because-it's-more-fundamentally-sound speech. I don't watch the NBA to watch lock-down defense and low-scoring affairs. I like fast breaks, monster dunks, and downtown threes.
But let's get back to where the REAL money is in sports, and that's in post-season wins, and especially championships. The Warriors have to know that if they don't take home the O'Brien trophy when it's all said and done, then in a couple of years no one will remember that they won 73 games. The reason people remember the 96 Bulls is because they won the championship. The Spurs have had 17 consecutive 50-win seasons. You'll hear that mentioned occasionally, but not much. Why? Because it's not a championship. The Warriors BETTER win it all. I doubt that the two of you have to search very hard to find near-and-dear examples of excellent regular seasons that ended in forgettable fashion.
I will take a side trail for a moment to talk about something that you touched on Brad. I actually LOVE the debates about players or teams from different generations and who is better. And the reason is because they CANNOT be answered. You guys have heard me mention before (probably) that human beings used to debate trivial things for hours and hours because there was no definitive answer handy. That doesn't happen anymore. If someone makes a comment like, "Notre Dame has won more football National Championships than Alabama has," then people could pass hours arguing about it. But not anymore, thanks to Google and his cousin Siri, we can get a definitive answer almost instantaneously. But those generational questions? Well, no one will ever be able to answer those questions, and THAT is what makes it a fun discussion.
Scottie Pippen says that the '96 Bulls would sweep the Warriors. So what do you think?
Sunday, April 3, 2016
Friday, April 1, 2016
Ed on Warriors
Nice post Brad. I agree with the generational comparisons and with the changes in the game that these comparisons don't do justice to how different the game really is. I also agree that the greatest players from each generation are perfectly suited for playing the game in their generation - an insightful point.
I've told friends that the Warriors to me are the Spurs with more sugar and pizazz. I didn't and don't like the Spurs, not because they aren't or weren't a great team, but because they were boring to watch. Sure, an occasional great pass or spectacular shot, but generally they just put the ball in the hole, played great defense and won lots of games. As a spectator that doesn't benefit or lose from wins/losses, I want and prefer entertainment in addition to sound basketball. That's the Warriors. As you pointed out, the Warriors play team basketball, but in an exciting way that's tons more fun to watch than the Spurs. My point is not to pick on the Spurs (sorry Marco), but rather, to praise the Warriors.
I'm a self-admitted fair-weather NBA fan but I must admit that because the Warriors are chasing the Bulls record I want to know if Golden State won nearly every night. Checking my phone or ESPN to find out, and seeing the highlights of what they do to win basketball games. It's exciting and fun even for someone who doesn't generally follow the NBA. The Warriors chasing the record set by the Bulls in the Jordan era has been very good for ratings, the NBA, and fans. Any time you can take one of the game's most iconic players (I was careful not to say greatest of all time!) and insert him into discussions about the current year's teams it is going to be a huge win.
One further note, and comparison. The 'my generation' Detroit Pistons also played team basketball that was exciting to watch. They won lots of games and had a colorful cast of characters that played the game as a band of brothers. But they were thugs and they prided themselves on that. Another admirable element of the Warriors seems to be the way the players carry themselves ... on and off the court.
I read a story about Steph Curry being interviewed by Craig Sager following one of the Warriors wins (I'm fairly certain you both saw it as well so I won't attach it here) where Steph was asked about whether they should pursue the Bulls regular season record, or rest players in preparation for the playoffs. Given what Craig is wrestling with Curry had the perfect answer, "I mean, seeing you and what you're doing, we've got no excuses. Your an inspiration for us to just keep doing what we're doing, keep fighting, and that's the mentality that we have and it's kind of contagious, so thank you."
With that on and off court presence and mentality I don't think there are many people cheering against Steph Curry and the Warriors. So I'm eagerly watching to see if they break the Bulls record, and their probability increases with every win. I believe they will. And if a record goes down by my beloved Bulls (I have the same admiration for those Bulls teams that you do Brad) then I hope it goes down at the hands of this Warriors team.
Fun to watch and full of class (from what I can tell) ... GO WARRIORS!
I've told friends that the Warriors to me are the Spurs with more sugar and pizazz. I didn't and don't like the Spurs, not because they aren't or weren't a great team, but because they were boring to watch. Sure, an occasional great pass or spectacular shot, but generally they just put the ball in the hole, played great defense and won lots of games. As a spectator that doesn't benefit or lose from wins/losses, I want and prefer entertainment in addition to sound basketball. That's the Warriors. As you pointed out, the Warriors play team basketball, but in an exciting way that's tons more fun to watch than the Spurs. My point is not to pick on the Spurs (sorry Marco), but rather, to praise the Warriors.
I'm a self-admitted fair-weather NBA fan but I must admit that because the Warriors are chasing the Bulls record I want to know if Golden State won nearly every night. Checking my phone or ESPN to find out, and seeing the highlights of what they do to win basketball games. It's exciting and fun even for someone who doesn't generally follow the NBA. The Warriors chasing the record set by the Bulls in the Jordan era has been very good for ratings, the NBA, and fans. Any time you can take one of the game's most iconic players (I was careful not to say greatest of all time!) and insert him into discussions about the current year's teams it is going to be a huge win.
One further note, and comparison. The 'my generation' Detroit Pistons also played team basketball that was exciting to watch. They won lots of games and had a colorful cast of characters that played the game as a band of brothers. But they were thugs and they prided themselves on that. Another admirable element of the Warriors seems to be the way the players carry themselves ... on and off the court.
I read a story about Steph Curry being interviewed by Craig Sager following one of the Warriors wins (I'm fairly certain you both saw it as well so I won't attach it here) where Steph was asked about whether they should pursue the Bulls regular season record, or rest players in preparation for the playoffs. Given what Craig is wrestling with Curry had the perfect answer, "I mean, seeing you and what you're doing, we've got no excuses. Your an inspiration for us to just keep doing what we're doing, keep fighting, and that's the mentality that we have and it's kind of contagious, so thank you."
With that on and off court presence and mentality I don't think there are many people cheering against Steph Curry and the Warriors. So I'm eagerly watching to see if they break the Bulls record, and their probability increases with every win. I believe they will. And if a record goes down by my beloved Bulls (I have the same admiration for those Bulls teams that you do Brad) then I hope it goes down at the hands of this Warriors team.
Fun to watch and full of class (from what I can tell) ... GO WARRIORS!
73 -9
My initial perspective was that I didn't want them to beat the record. The Bulls were my team at the time that I played and was most interested in basketball. I want to remember that Bulls stretch as the best team in regular season history. But as I thought about it I found myself sounding like all those retired professional athletes that lament the game (not just basketball; baseball, football, etc.) that is played today, how pampered players are today, and how their teams would have kicked the teams of today's butts.
Here is the news flash to our father as well as the rest of the world: things change. Everything changes over a 20, 30, 50 year stretch. And just because it changes doesn't mean its bad, it doesn't mean the people involved aren't as good (as players or people), or that there is some nefarious conspiracy that favors current events. It simply means that things have changed.
In order to fill the void driven by 24 hour sports TV and radio, discussions about "the best players/teams of all time" and comparing players across generations have become necessary. The best 50 NBA players of all time. These are incredibly difficult comparisons and do an incredible injustice to all players or teams involved in the comparison. The game Julius Erving played was different than Rudy Tomjanovich, which is different than the game played by Michael Jordan, which is different than the game played by Kobe Bryant. I don't think Lebron would be as successful as he is today if he had to play in the 70s. And I don't think Jerry West would be nearly as successful if he had to play the game of today. Players and teams are a product of the game as it is played in their generation. They aren't better or worse, they are perfectly suited to the game that they played when they played it.
I'm not going to be one of those curmudgeons that wants my era of basketball to always be considered the best. The Bulls teams during the run led by Michael Jordan were the best of that era of basketball. And the current run of the Golden State Warriors is the best we are seeing in the game right now. I'm excited to see history, I hope they beat the Bulls 72-10 and I hope they win another NBA championship.
One other important component to me is that I like the Golden State team, I like their players, and I think they play the game the right way. It is a team sport and the reason they win is not because Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. They win because they play as a team. Curry is Jordan, Klay Thompson is Scottie Pippen, Draymond Green is Horace Grant. Andre Iguodala is Dennis Rodman. They've figured out how to put their egos and bank accounts aside and sacrifice just a little personal gratification to win the ultimate team prize. The San Antonio Spurs are the same way. And the Cleveland Cavaliers and Oklahoma City Thunder probably won't win an NBA title until their leaders learn the same lessons and are willing to make the same sacrifices.
Go Warriors!
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